ELEPHANTS IN OAKLAND
an Oakland Athletics Blog:
Pitching, Defense and the Three Run Jimmy-Jack


ELEPHANTS IN OAKLAND
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Monday, January 30, 2006
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SHIPOOPI



    Do re me fa so la si
    Do si la sol fa mi re do


    Squeeze her once, when she isn't lookin'
    If you get a squeeze back that's fancy cookin'
    Once more for a pepper-upper
    She will never get sore on her way to supper


    Do re me fa sol la si
    Do si do

THE MUSIC MAN





Mark Ellis avoided arbitration by agreeing to a two-year deal worth $6 Million and the ever present Billy Beane paperclip; an option for an additional year at $5 Million. There is also a $250,000 buyout following 2007. Ellis will make $2.25 million in 2006 and $3.5 million in 2007.

Signing Ellis should come as no surprise. Ellis was to be the A's 2nd baseman this season barring any miracle trades or Bobby Crosby running down Ellis in the parking lot in Arizona next month. The second year of the deal ensures the A's have no question marks up the middle for the next 15-18 months. Why not the next two seasons?

This seems to be an area of a lot of confusion among A's fans. Apparently some have not received the memo that

A
There is turnover from year to year on all MLB team's rosters


B
Billy Beane trades and acquires players to keep the A's competitive


C
Many, but not all, players do not play out their multi-year contracts with the A's


D
The above are constant and will not change to meet the fan's eye view of the A's



As an A's fan you cannot, CAN NOT, CAN NOT confine yourself to the idea that any A's player is untouchable or not replaceable. Some just need to take a stroll down the transaction lists of the past ten years and see that to be true. The mistake is that some fans see only what is immediately in front of them and cannot see the warning track for the infield. There is a bigger picture constantly involved with the A's organization, yet fans mysteriously feel that the Opening Day Roster for 2004 will be pretty much the same for 2005. And the players will all perform better and get younger and the bathrooms at the Coliseum will smell better and be cleaner with each visit.


There are two players in the A's organization that are in line to be ready for a 2007 call-up or at least ready for the 2008 season.

Last year's first round pick, Clifton Pennington (SS) and 5th round pick of 2004, Ken Melillo (2B).

CLIFFTON PENNINGTON


POSITION:
SS  
BORN:
June 15, 1984PLACE:Corpus Christi, Texas
HEIGHT:
5-11WEIGHT:175
BATS:
BothTHROWS: Right
HIGH SCHOOL:
Carroll High School (Corpus Christi, TX)  
COLLEGE:
Texas A&M  
DRAFTED:
Selected 1st round (21st overall) of 2005  



YearTEAMLeagueAgeOrg.LevelGABRH2B3BHRRBISBCSBBSOHBPIBBSHSFDP AVGOBPSLGOPS
2003Texas A&MNCAA19NCAA6324154821422411222227022.340.392.440.832
2004Texas A&MNCAA20NCAA632576087745351233318043.339.410.455.865
2005Texas A&MNCAA21NCAA5621244771347392993725124.363.453.5611.014
2005Kane CountyMidw21OAKA69290498015032925639472021.276.364.359.723
Minor League Totals: 1 years69290498015032925639472021.276.364.359.723



KEVIN MELILLO

POSITION:
2B  
BORN:
May 14, 1982PLACE:Orlando,Florida
HEIGHT:
6-0WEIGHT:190
BATS:
LeftTHROWS: Right
HIGH SCHOOL:
Lake Brantley High School (Altamonte Springs,FL)  
COLLEGE:
University of South Carolina  
DRAFTED:
Selected 5th round (157th overall) of 2004  



YearTEAMLeagueAgeOrg.LevelGABRH2B3BHRRBISBCSBBSOHBPIBBSHSFDP AVGOBPSLGOPS
2002S. CarolinaNCAA20NCAA581573644120315412420370.280.386.414.800
2003S. CarolinaNCAA21NCAA6522759721601243634154194.317.418.546.964
2004S. CarolinaNCAA22NCAA541764554719364013382104.307.354.511.865
2004VancouverNwest22OAKA229422321122212111163001.340.422.564.986
2005StocktonCalif23OAKA22902136719232012181001.400.471.8001.271
2005Kane CountyMidw23OAKA78280478018383610453403115.286.399.457.856
2005MidlandTex23OAKAA3513133371007349214230102.282.347.519.866
Minor League Totals: 2 years157595123185466261142379097721912 .311.402.539.941



Pennington projects, in some eyes, as a leadoff hitter. Melillo as a number two or 5-7 hole hitter. Pennington plays shortstop and Melillo 2nd base. Melillo will most likely be ready for the big leagues before Pennington. After last year's draft most had Pennington eventually moving to second base if the A's retained Bobby Crosby.

So, we've come to another situation where two players currently on the roster have prospects coming up behind them. One will be gone, most likely, in 2008. Maybe even sooner. The two players have contracts that could reach into 2008...hence, the option for 2008 with Mark Ellis.

Of course for the next 15-18 months I'll receive even more hate email. Then when a transaction occurs where Ellis or Crosby leaves the A's nobody will offer an apology. Or when Swisher leaves the A's. That's fine. I just wish that reality didn't have to be visited upon so many, so often. This is why I always say that being a fan of the team means you root for laundry. You root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name player on the back of the jersey.



The addition of Frank Thomas has people bringing out their calculators and projecting stats clearly not based on any relative information or reality itself.



    Beane said there is a good chance that Thomas will be ready by April, "and that's being conservative," he said.
    San Francisco Chronicle


    "We're not pushing him to be out there on Opening Day," Beane said. "But if you were to ask Frank ... "
    Sacramento Bee



Here is the kicker, the point, the reason, the thing...this is why sportswriters hold such a low opinion in my view. Nobody has been able to get Billy Beane or Arn Tellem (and what agent would say his client is physically unable to play?) to publicly state, 'Frank Thomas has been physically cleared to play baseball by a qualified physician and had passed the mandatory physical requirements as set by the Oakland Athletics Baseball Club.'



    That included having Thomas come to Oakland early last week to be checked out by the A's doctor and trainers.


    "He underwent a number of stress tests, very strenuous, and Frank felt great," Beane said. "He has a very good chance of being ready in April. He believes he'll be ready in Spring Training, we're just taking a conservative approach mentally."
    MLB.com



Further, none of them have written anything on the subject of being unable to get Beane or anyone with the A's to offer some validation of Thomas' physical state. They took Beane, Tellem and Thomas' evasive answers as gospel and left it at that. So much for investigative reporting. Exactly which 'stress tests' did the A's physician perform? If Thomas can not run, let a lone jog or take batting proactive, less than a month prior the mandatory reporting date for position players, who in their right mid would even CONSIDER Thomas a possibility for Opening Day, let alone April or even May/

Joe Sheehan of BASEBALL PROSPECTUS offered some insight and suggested Thomas be focused on having him ready for the postseason a la Christina Kahrl's thought on the Yankees dynasty.

    That he remained unsigned so deep into this winter, and comes so cheaply--$500,000 guaranteed on a deal that maxes out at $3.1 million--is testament to the uncertainty surrounding his health.
    Joe Sheehan, Baseball Prospectus

Comments:

Good post about ellis and the continual evolution of any baseball team. As I commented before, Swisher is just as liable to be traded as anyone (even chavez if he doesn't own up pretty soon). We should all admit that we are A's fans, not Zito fans, or Crosby fans, or Scott Hatteburg fans. Good signing by Beane to keep the keystone warm until either ellis truly heats it up or melillo takes it away.

As far as Thomas goes, well, I still would guess around 80 games from him. Did I read too much into his health that he would be ready really soon? Probably. Do I still think 80 games of Frank thomas, especially if most are in Sept-Oct, is worth a $500,000 risk, absolutely. So point made Zach, and I hope mine (and most others here) have been noted as well.

You know, you can still make your readers "think for themselves" by pointing out things like Frank Thomas not being cleared for baseball activities without seeming like a Giants fan. Objective reporting seems to be what you seek from the "sportwriters", sole negative reporting is not objective.

 

Oh yeah, and as for those who send you hate email when you dare suggest someone on the A's could possibly be moved, well, they are idiots... some of the worst kind... Simply posting your opinion should surely allow for disagreement, but not hate...

Not to get to all hippie on y'all...

 

I agree 100% about Thomas. He comes cheaply for a reason. If he can get healthy enough to play down the stretch and into the postseason I'll be happy.

 

This is better than a wax sculpture of Gwyneth Paltrow and Harriet Tubman.

 

Beane nearly "traded" himself to Boston a few years back, why would anyone think a mere player has better job security?

Unless your name is Jason Kendall and you have a full NTC to go with a $13 million contract.

 

haha, well said...

 

I still think Beane will try to trade Kendall, just to see what he can get away with.

Sometimes Billy just gets bored.

 

One point I'd like to make that may be obvious, but which Zach did not explicitly say, is that while nobody on the A's is untouchable, the same goes for the minor league system. Sure, Crosby and Ellis might both get traded down the line to make room for up-and-comers, but Beane trades prospects too, in an effort to improve the major league team. Even if both Pennington and Mellilo tear up the high minors, odds are that at least one of them ends up traded for bullpen help or whatever it is the A's happen to need at the trading deadline (in 2006, 2007 or 2008). A good A's fan knows who these guys are, but also knows that even the best prospects won't necessarily end up on the major league team.

 

Good, well expressed point, jmoney. The prospects are just as likely to leave as anyone, maybe even MORE likely, given BB's track record. But I can't wholeheartedly agree with the idea of "rooting for laundry". While I understand that the game is a business, and that players don't stick with a single team for their career like they used to, I can't help getting attached to certain players over the course of even a 162 game season. I usually secretly root for guys that have left the A's, like Ramon Hernandez, Tejada, Matt Stairs. And I'll always keep an eye on Mulder and Hudson, even though they've changed laundry. I know the message is "don't get attached, anyone is expendable". I guess I'm just a big softy.

 

I'm assuming we can all agree that eventhough Thomas might have some limitations and there is a small degree of risk with giving him a roster spot this is still a "good signing". At 500 K, its a very small risk with potentially high rewards. What's the fuckin' problem?

Plus, one other thing. Shitting on another blog (discussion board, or whatever you want to call it) is so fuckin' childish. If you got problems with another blog, go over there and say your peace and stop wasting our fuckin' time here with petty immature bullshit.

 

Here here. Harumph !!

 

Who's going to Spring Training???

 

Nice Music Man reference!

Hate the plot, love the music.

 

Ms. Haas,

No spring training for me until about the time I can afford to buy the team. Did take the time to look at your photo links today; nice work. Since my pictures usually include a finger or thumb, and red eyes, I'm especially appreciative....pass my regards to Josh as well.

Go Team !!!

 

Thanks! Alot of my pages are down because my blog was hacked into and deleted, only to have porn sites up in it's place. Not that there is anything wrong with porn, but it took me days to put the spring training pics up!

I think we should all chip in and buy the team.

 

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Friday, January 27, 2006
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ALL THINGS RECONSIDERED




There is this old man who spent so much of his life sleeping that he is able to keep awake for the rest of his years -
He resides on a beach in a town where I am going to live and I often ask him -
"Are you looking for the mother lode?"
"Huh? No. No my child, this is not my desire" and then he said "I'm digging for fire."



The Pixies





I usually respond to email on an individual basis, but honestly I don't have time right now. Not only has my trip to Arizona for Spring Training been scuttled by my boss, my vacation as a whole has been wiped out. Under the guise of "other duties as assigned" my agreed time off vanished. Take note; don't work hard, don't go the extra mile. Sure, it's great job security when a project relies solely on you at times. But it also means you are required at times to work even harder, more and go further than the extra mile.

Elephants in Oakland has been put on a back burner so deep I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't just switch to Podcasts and record as I have a few minutes in between meetings, driving to class or even in the bathroom (don't laugh, I read the entire Fletch series and re-read the last two Baseball Prospectus annuals and Baseball America Top Prospects in three months after the 2005 season).

Let's skip to relative issues.

I try to reach a broad spectrum of people, particularly A's fans. I don't try to increase hits and I don't advertise this blog, that's not what this is about. This is not a commercial site and I have no plans on making it one. I don't do interviews unless you are going to learn something from them. In posts I ask questions. I propose concepts. I ask readers to think for themselves. I sometimes 'dumb' things down so that people new to baseball in general can catch on to stats and other terms (want to know how many people have emailed me on what 'OBP' stands for?). I originally started this blog as a way to explain baseball to my roommate. Also to remember what actually happened with a game or with the A's in general. Why? Because sportswriters, particularly those who work for newspapers don't 'get it'. TV talking heads and 'analysts' get it even less. Try listening to Glen Kuiper without cringing.

This is not a message board. And I define a message board as very little content followed by the ability of users to comment and add a continual series of responses. Essentially a gross off shoot of the old Bulletin Board System (BBS) in the early days of the public internet. I'm thrilled that many are carrying on some of the thoughts in the comments area, but I am not about to start correcting people. I'll let others do that. The difficulty is, MLB.com already has a message board as does ESPN.com and a few other commercial baseball sites. Message boards become the lowest common denominator of information dissemination. In fact, I'd argue that much of it is not information or even chatter. Just pointless and a waste of time.

I really don't want to read about which Oakland A's player has the best ass or endure a 'fan' who claims that the A's are the best team in baseball, every A's player is the best in baseball and has no significant basis for these statements other than the fact they want to be able to put their funny user name on "them internets with that 'puter thing".

I have experimented with a varied format, with an administrator with another site, so that people can type in real time and respond to each other. I can retool that and revive it here - call it a forum rather than a bulletin board and have regular hours where readers can submit with an immediate response. Either with me, or others on the fringes of the inner workings of baseball. Closer to instant messaging than a true chat session where messages are sent and senders hope that there is a response on the subject they submitted. Usually there is not.

Which brings me to the next bit. I am not sure I want to attend the A's Fan Fest tomorrow. I did attend the previous few years and the only real fun for me is getting a chance to ask Billy Beane a question in the Question and Answer sessions. Even then I expected a typical Beane response, but sportswriters and others with access to Billy Beane have a tendency to ask the same basic questions. Beane is only too happy to respond with patent answers. In some cases print sportswriters are simply taking a sound bite, a small sample, from an answer to a question. Interviews with Beane are merely an elongated form of the process without the editing. Glen Kuiper's sit-downs with Beane have an elegant view of how bad the sports world has changed. Where is Howard Cossell when we need him?

Rob Neyer's recent article on ESPN.com is a wonderful example of a writer with access being able to point out the asinine and the ridiculous. Neyer is not a sportswriter. He's a writer who happens to write about baseball. Oh, and as you know, I have told ESPN.com to shove their pay-to-read 'Insider' service. I asked Rob Neyer about his column being moved from the free area of ESPN.com two years ago, I believe the actually phrasing of the question was, "what the hell?" So, here's Rob Neyer's ESPN.com article:

    Coliseum unkind to power hitters


    By Rob Neyer

    "Wednesday, for the first time in my moderately lengthy and supremely improbable career, I participated in a press conference. I did this supremely improbable thing because (a) I was invited, (b) it's not every day that Frank Thomas changes teams, and (c) I enjoy listening to A's general manager Billy Beane try to amuse himself without actually saying anything interesting.


    Actually, it was a teleconference, with Beane presiding over all the writers and broadcasters who cared to dial in for his comments about the signing of Thomas. I planned to take good notes, but I gave up almost immediately, after being reminded that Beane rarely says anything worth repeating (on the record, at least).


    I did get one for posterity (though it wasn't one of my own lame questions).


    Question: [Actually, all I remember is that it was something about the desirability of Thomas' experience. And there might have been something about intangibles mentioned.]


    Answer: "You know what? One intangible, possibly, is that this is a guy whose skill level, whose presence in the lineup is undeniable. Frank Thomas is a presence. Not only is he our type of offensive player, he's everybody's type of offensive player." Exactly. Thomas has played in only 108 games over the last two seasons. But when he's played, he's been good enough to bat .255/.400/.571 (and for any neophytes who might be reading, those last two numbers are the important ones, and they're awfully good).


    And as you've no doubt heard, the A's got Thomas cheap: $500,000 guaranteed, with various health- and performance-based incentives that could push his compensation all the way to $3.1 million. Still a relative pittance these days.


    But here's the truly beautiful thing about this deal: If Thomas isn't healthy enough to earn those bonuses, the A's won't miss him. Seriously. The A's already had a solid lineup. Last season, they finished sixth in the American League in scoring, even though they had Dan Johnson for only two-thirds of the season, and Bobby Crosby for only half the season. Mark Ellis enjoyed what's likely to be his career season, but nobody else did anything out of character (except Jason Kendall, who was so terrible that he almost has to be not only better in 2006, but a lot better). This winter they picked up Milton Bradley. On top of this giant cupcake, Thomas isn't even a cherry; he's just some of those shiny sprinkles that look a lot better than they taste.


    Maybe that's not fair. It does seem unlikely, though, that Thomas actually will play more than 50 or 60 games. And more worrisome, perhaps, is this: From 2000 through 2005, Thomas hit 108 home runs in his cozy home ballpark -- and 39 everywhere else. Those numbers are so extreme -- you don't see numbers like that from anybody, not even Colorado's sluggers -- that it's almost impossible to believe that they're meaningful in a literal sort of way. But new Comiskey is incredibly friendly to power hitters, and Oakland's Coliseum is not.


    I've known about Thomas' struggles away from the South Side, but I forgot Wednesday. So I didn't ask Billy Beane about Thomas' home/road splits (and neither did anybody else). I did ask about another split, though. Over the course of his career, Thomas has hit significantly better while playing first base than DHing. Here are his career stats at both spots, courtesy of my friends at STATS:



     ABOBPSLG
    DH3442.402.512
    1B3485.453.625


    As a first baseman, Thomas is either the greatest right-handed batter since Rogers Hornsby, or the greatest ever. As a designated hitter, he's been fantastic, but hardly some sort of historical figure who inspires poetry and interpretive dance. Do those numbers tell us anything about Thomas' abilities? Or are we simply looking at randomness or the natural manifestation of a player who played first base when he was healthy and DH'd when he wasn't? I don't know.


    Here are some meaningful numbers, though:
     ABOBPSLG
    Career vs. LHP1654.456.657
    Career vs. RHP 5302.418.540



    For a lot of reasons, I'm pulling for Thomas. I hope the apparent trends have, in this case, absolutely no predictive qualities. But even if he's reasonably healthy, Thomas is unlikely to help the Athletics in a full-time role. The A's have a deep bench. No, we can't expect the manager to play Thomas only at first base against right-handers in homer-prone ballparks. But with lefty-killers Thomas and Bobby Kielty on the roster, along with right-handed hitting Jay Payton, there are roughly 12 guys who deserve some sort of defined, regular (or semi-regular) role.

    Manager Ken Macha has a real challenge on his hands. Billy Beane has provided Macha with a wealth of talent. Everybody does something well. This team is probably good enough, given a reasonable degree of luck, to win 95 games and take the division title. But for this team to achieve its true potential, Macha will have to juggle every nonpitcher on his roster without causing too much dissension in the ranks. Most managers wouldn't be up to the task. But let's keep an eye on this one."


So, you got the 'it's a good deal' some of you have been begging for. And you also got it kicked back in your face by Rob Neyer. I still take the position that there's not a whole lot to make of this situation until Thomas can actually step into the batter's box. If he does, that changes the complexion of the A's roster and there are lots of options to be considered. But, even these considerations have been floating out there since the end of last season. Many have hitched their anchor to Nick Swisher being the second coming of Mickey Mantle ("cuz they wrote a book called Moneyballer about him") and that Beane would "never trade Swisher".

Or trade:
    Mark Redman, Tim Hudson, Nelson Cruz, Mark Mulder, Ted Lilly, Terrence Long, Ramon Hernandez, Michael Barrett, Bret Price, Bill Murphy, Mike Neu, Eduardo Sierra, J.T. Stotts, Jason Grabowski, Chad Harville, Frank Menechino, Mike Wood, Mark Teahen, Cory Lidle, Billy Koch, Neal Cotts, Daylon Holt Jason Arnold, John-Ford ThunderCougarFalconbird Griffin, Aaron Harang, Joe Valentine, Jeff Bruksch, Mark Bellhorn, Eric Hinske, Justin Miller, Tom Wilson, Jason Hart, Gerald Laird, Ryan Ludwick, and Mario Ramos, Luis Vizcaino, Jeremy Giambi, Carlos Pena, Franklyn German, Jeremy Bonderman, Jon Adkins, Marshall McDougall, Randy Velarde, Matt Stairs, Miguel Olivo, Ben Grieve, Angel Berroa, A.J. Hinch, Miguel Cairo, Ryan Christenson, Robin Jennings, Todd Belitz, Mario Encarnacion, Jose Ortiz, Michael Wenner, Jimmy Haynes, Brett Laxton, Jesus Colome, Danny Ardoin, Jorge Velandia, Jay Witasick, Kenny Rogers, Jeff Davanon, Elvin Nina, and Nathan Haynes, Jeff D'Amico, Brad Rigby, and Blake Stein, Billy Taylor, Carl Dale, Scott Brosius, David Newhan, Don Wengert, Steve Karsay, Eric Ludwick, Shane Mack, Greg Hansell, Kurt Abbott, Ara Petrosian, Jason Wood, Adam Robinson, Scott Rivette, John Wasdin,
    Creighton Gubanich, Geronimo Berroa, Mark McGwire...

Comments:

Zach sticks is to the man and the fan.

 

Excellent post, Zach. Agreed that ESPN can take their pay-for-read bullshit and stuff it.

The thing that I take from Neyer's article that really worries me is the importance of Macha in the A's 2006 season. I agree with Neyer on two levels; one, that the A's are a solid team that has a good shot at winning the divison; and two, that Macha needs to properly juggle all of these guys to get them enough playing time. It shouldn't be that hard (if every corner infield/outfield starter gets one day a week off, that works Payton, the bench player most likely to piss and moan, around 100 starts this season) but Macha has shown himself to be a thouroughly inept no-talent assclown with no idea how to use his bullpen or bench, so we'll just have to wait and see.

I also don't think that a trade is too likely to happen, but not because Swisher is Beane's love-child or anything. I just think that all of the injury risks (Kotsay, Bradley, Thomas, Payton himself are obvious risks, and you never know when Swisher will run into a wall or crash his tractor or something) make the depth that the A's have absolutely necessary.

 

I do have one bone to pick with Neyer's article, and that is he did not address the premise of the article, or at least, what he titled it.

I was expecting to read about what Thomas will do in the Coliseum, and why Neyer says that the Coliseum is bad for Power Hitters. The only argument he makes on that point is to say that Thomas is very good in Chicago, and not as good elsewhere. But he does not address how Thomas might do in Oakland, or how other power hitters have fared in Oakland.

Thomas's stats in Oakland the last 3 years:
.321/.424/.750/1.174 (28AB)

Small sample, yes, but he still seems to have success here.

But really, it begs the question: How DO power hitters fare in Oakland? Or better yet, how do different type of hitters fare in Oakland, ala Jonnny Damon's inability to hit in Oakland (.200/.317/.314/.631 in 35AB)

(Why is Thomas listed as an Outfielder on ESPN?)

 

ah, I forgot. I have a question for you. You complained about the inept questions that sportswriters ask their interviewies, the soundbite oriented clips, and so on, but what would YOU ask them?

(No, I'm not being patronizing, I'm serious, what would you ask them?!)

 

Whiny old Zach at his best.

You're going to look a real idiot when Swisher isn't traded.

 

And you'll look like an idiot when he is...or if he isn't. SO what's your point?

Man, do you people have such a hard on for Nick Swisher you can't see past the fact he sucks?

He was supposed to be Rookie of the Year. He was supposed to be a better hitter than he showed in Sacramento.

Now he's the A's 5th OF and in a span of a month is no longer the A's 1st baseman, but in a platoon. And the A's haven't played a single game.

Nor has Frank Thomas

 

Mr. Smith

You've swung too far over the other way. Swisher has a rough rookie season, but that can happen. The guy hit LHP well in his 04 debut, a trait that he (supposedly) carried over from the minors. Last year he couldn't touch them. Is that just a blip or the start of a distrubing trend? No one will be sure until next season. But calling him the 5th OFer is off base, he's certainly going to be playing ahead of Bobby Kielty and I think he starts over Payton.

 

"So, you got the 'it's a good deal' some of you have been begging for. And you also got it kicked back in your face by Rob Neyer."

1) I don't think any of us disagree with Neyer's view. That would assume we didn't know that Thomas is injured or that Cellular Field is friendly to right-handed power hitters (though it should be noted that McAfee , sans 2004 at 999, has been a HITTERS park, though slightly). What we all want to point out is that we only have to pay $500,000 to see if it is a fluke, or if his pissed-ofness at the White Sox leads to a rebound year, not bad at all.

2) We haven't been begging for the "it's a good deal", we have been DEMANDING IT, because as even Rob Neyer says, it is. Being wrong and admitting it is a truly courageous thing to do, being wrong and sticking to your guns is a confident thing to do. Being wrong, then trying to berate those who are right and kindly point it out is pretty disappointing for someone of such obvious intelligence.

P.S. As far as swisher goes, geez, cut the kid a little slack. Robin Yount sucked his first year, Cal Ripken had an OBP of .317 his first full year, Paul Moliter a .301 OBP. Goddamn, its his ROOKIE YEAR, with the expectation that he was going to win ROY. Honestly, I expect a .265/.360/.430 line this year with 25 HR's. A great year? No, but not bad for a 2nd year player.

 

Zach just continually talks shit about Swisher, he has done since day 1. And he is WRONG.

I hope to see his crow all over this blog next season.

'5th OF'er' that's any semblance of credibility gone right there. Zach is a whiner pure and simple dressed up in a lot of fancy talk.

Swisher is a favourite target of his bile uzi for reasons best known to himself.

Basically he just delights in knocking every little thing the Oakland Athletics try and do, as if he knows best.

 

Good thing we're gonna win the Worlds Series this year, huh?

 

For those who haven't picked up a copy of Ron Shandler's 2006 Baseball Forecaster, here is his comment and projection for poor old Swish (bear in mind this is written with fantasy players in mind):

"Excellent buy-low opportunity as low full-season BA masks 2nd half growth. Spikes in bb%, LD (line drive)%, PX, but H% killed BA. Power will likely arrive before BA, but both are on the way.
UP:30 HR"

Admittedly, I'm a big admirer of Shandler, who predicted Zito's post Cy Young regression. He also has extremely nice things to say about Crosby, Harden, Haren, and Johnson in this year's book.

 

Oops, left out Shandler's projection for Swisher:

.250-25-81-0, .821 OPS

 

If Zach never said it was a good deal or a bad deal...how exactly is he wrong, again?

Zach 'talks shit' about Swisher, and he is wrong? Provide some information on that, if you can. Zach doesn't care for Swisher and he doesn't think his numbers bely what the media and the A's get the media to say about Swisher.

Shandler is a fantasy guy and I think most would look at what Bill James and PECOTA have to say (Rob Neyer does).

And as far as you AN people getting YOUR bile uzi's out, Swisher is the A's 5th OF'er this year, every report from the A's has made that clear. You can read any newspaper report and you'll see the same. In fact, several have come out and said Swisher may not even play in the OF this season.

It gets really old having to read through these comments as if Zach berated their dead dog after he ran over it.

The guy does a great job of presenting an issue and some of you don't understand how to analyze anything so you just naysay.

Go get a life.

I hope the A's win the World Series, too. But here's a challenge to the pollyanna's out there - put your money where your mouth is. Plunk down your cash for a strip of World Series tickets right now.

No excuses, "I don't live in California". Plunk down the cash.

See how many are willing to back up their cliams now.

 

PECOTA for Swisher: 50th percentile
.252/.347/.455
538PA/66r/21 hr/75rbi/64BB/105K

PECOTA for Johnson: 50th Percentile
.272/.353/.462
577PA/70r/21hr/83rbi/62bb/77k

PECOTA for Thomas:
.237/.342/.497
353PA/22hr/61rbi


These were just released this week.

I actually wrote Neyer the night after the Beane press conference that he was on, asking why he didn't inquire about Thomas' home/road spilts. He wrote back, said he forgot about them and thanked me. Two days later, there's that article.



Chip

 

Sadly, World Series tickets haven't gone on sale yet. However, as an A's season ticket holder, I have plunked down cash for post season tickets for each of the last however many seasons. And then re-invested the money in next season's tix. And I don't even live in California!

Oh, caught me in a lie. I even live in Oakland, which is more than can be said for many A's fans!

So would those who diss the Swish (and I have at times been amongst them)
argue that he is a better fantasy player than 'real' player? And, Ron Washington hyperbole aside, how does he rate defensively at first in comparison to his rather cloddish outfield play? Or is he a better defensive outfielder than he appears? Serious questions, BTW--I'm not as knowledgable about defensive metrics as I should be.

 

I always find it amusing when an anonymous poster throws down a challenge like "put your money where your mouth is and buy WS tickets today!"

Anyways, this poster makes a claim which is completely false, which is why I'm leaving this comment.

"And as far as you AN people getting YOUR bile uzi's out, Swisher is the A's 5th OF'er this year, every report from the A's has made that clear. You can read any newspaper report and you'll see the same. In fact, several have come out and said Swisher may not even play in the OF this season."

I don't know what newspapers this person is reading, but the following sources do not support this position.

The Chronicle says "When Thomas is in the lineup, Johnson will be back at first much of the time, and Swisher returns to the outfield....That would leave outfielder Jay Payton -- who was so upset with his lack of playing time in Boston last year that he triggered a trade -- as the possible odd man out".

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/01/26/SPGB2GTBMS1.DTL

MLB.com says "the A's sign Thomas, he's the primary DH. That moves Johnson back to first, Nick Swisher back to right field and Bradley over to left."

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060122&content_id=1299257&vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

The Spots Xchange (which feeds CBSSportsline.com and FoxSports.com) says "All that's certain is that Kotsay will be the everyday center fielder. As for the corner spots, Macha said he wants to spend spring training determining which side is the better fit for Bradley and Swisher." The implication here being that Payton again seems the odd man out.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/report/OAK/9193015

ESPN.com says "With the addition of Thomas, Dan Johnson will likely be Oakland's starting first baseman and Nick Swisher and Jay Payton could share time in left field. Bradley will start in right alongside center fielder Mark Kotsay." Even here it's implied that Swisher will be no worse than the LH part of a left field platoon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2305916

Here are four reports, national sources all, and none of them support this mystery poster's claim that the A's have broadcast loud and clear that Swisher is going to be the 5th OFer next year. I know that Urban and Slusser aren't held in the highest regard around here, but it seems a little incredulous to think they'd miss out on such a story.

Perhaps next time we could get a name and some sources to go with this other version.

 

Well said...

 

I disagree, folks and here's why.

First, though, can we got off the animostiy? If you like AN, fine, go there. If you like EiO, fine. If you like both, fine. Let's just agree that we are fans of baseball and most of us are A's fans and be done with it, okay?

This is worse than a Raiders fan gathering...a holding cell at the Oakland PD. Or sticking Ray Ratto in a room with pom-pom man.

I don't want to write too much and have someone one scan over each letter to try and 'prove' an argument worng. Like, Grover, the SF Chronicle is not a national source, it's a local source. Like that.

I have to restate what Zach has said